Investing in New Founders, Drive, and Unpredictable Emotions - Misfit Founders Ep 2

Kristina Pereckaite: 0:00

This is my first business and I've made so many mistakes. I've spent a lot of money I shouldn't have.

‍Biro: 0:04

She would tell me, you are bloody intense. You need to calm down.

Kristina Pereckaite: 0:10

None of the traditional stuff has helped me to hire, like none of it.

Biro: 0:18

You're watching the Misfit Founders Podcast, a raw conversation about the challenges of building businesses. Overcoming hardships and also feeling out of place. I'm Biro, an exited founder, investor, and advisor who failed quite a few businesses in the past. My mission with Misfit Founders? To help at least one founder every single month by unveiling the authentic stories of other founders and providing guidance and support. So I hope you enjoyed the podcast today. And get useful insights out of it. And if you do, do join the conversation on our WhatsApp community, where we discuss topics like this one in this podcast in group, as well as a private sessions link in the video description. Also, please subscribe to this YouTube channel so that you get notified when we publish new videos. My house is a mad house with two dogs running around. Well, anyways, you made it. Thank you so much for training. Um. Do you want to quickly do, do a quick introduction? Who is Christina and you know, what is Southeast Angels?

Kristina Pereckaite: 1:28

Sure. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. I'm super excited to have this chat with you. Um, so I run an angel group called Southeast Angels, uh, which is essentially a collective of individual investors who are interested investing in early stage companies. And hence the name Southeast Angels, where we're specifically looking at. The Southeast regions in the UK trying to find the best innovative companies and I'm one of them and you are one of the members and that's how, yeah, absolutely. Which is, which is awesome. So I'm so excited to get into your perspective of it as well. Awesome.

Biro: 1:59

Yes. Um, I'm curious. So you're S E A C, Southeast Dangerous, yeah. And you have plans to extend beyond Southeast Angel, I suppose.

Kristina Pereckaite: 2:13

Beyond the Southeast? Yeah.

Biro: 2:14

Is that, is

Kristina Pereckaite: 2:15

that a thing or? No, so, so our, the ultimate goal is to kind of dominate the Southeast in the sense of being the most active in the Southeast. We started off, um, focusing on Brighton. So, you know, I'm Brighton, you're, you're Brighton based. And my... The goal initially was to create, well, the only angel group that existed in Brighton at the time, and still now actually, because Brighton didn't have an angel group, so all these early stage companies are trying to raise money, and they didn't have anywhere to go. There wasn't even a VC or a fund, so they'd all have to compete in London. In one of the most competitive funding markets. So having an angel group in Brighton means that local businesses have a place to go where they know investors are looking for them as well. So it's kind of creating this hub, this investment hub and community for local investors, essentially, that was the goal. Now, you know, the next step is to, is to do that for the whole of the Southeast because it's quite neglected. You know, the regions outside London are quite neglected for investment.

Biro: 3:11

Yeah. I mean, London is a hub and then you go up north Edinburgh, probably a hub as well. Yeah. Uh, so it's interesting. So we're basically the first syndicate in Brighton.

Kristina Pereckaite: 3:23

Uh, well, there have been syndicates that have come and gone, um, but none of them managed to stick around. So they'd, they try something and it wouldn't work. And I think it was mostly because people try to replicate what was in London, you know, try to put that same kind of. Uh, structure in place, whereas Brighton is, it's kind of its own thing, isn't it? It kind of operates in its own bubble and it needed its own special thing that somebody or a community that really understood Brighton businesses and knew how to find them. Um, so that was kind of, you know, our unique thing that we came in with. Um, and yeah, so we're, we're the only age group and I guess the most active. As well, we can say

Biro: 4:02

from my own experience, from my limited experience as a danger investor. Yes, 100%. Um, so I wanted to talk to you about this and I wanted to ask a question, which I actually asked you before, um, which was aside from the fact, which is pretty clear, the fact that there's. No, there wasn't support for startups, uh, for funding, for startups here in, in Brighton, in Southeast. I'm interested in your reasons, right? You beyond the, you know, I'm helping, I'm, I'm creating a bit of a community and an environment of. A friendly environment in Brighton and in Southeast, dominating Southeast, like you say, what drives you, right? What is your personal drive in, in all of this?

Kristina Pereckaite: 4:54

Yeah. So, so it's an interesting question because actually my background is not an investment at all. So this, you know, I learned as I, as I went along in this, in this world. And I get that question quite a lot because people are like, well, you're not from an investment background. What made you do this? And the thing, the thing that gets me out of the bed, gets me out of bed in the morning is, is problem solving. And I, when I, but before this, I was running a startup accelerator in Brighton, helping companies raise money. And I realized there was just this big problem in the local area and people were trying to solve it, but not in the right way. And I was, you know, I had that kind of naive. Entrepreneur mentality was like, I can do it, I can do it better. And, uh, and so for me, it was just, I got so obsessed with solving this problem. I was like, nobody is figuring out how to help these companies. And then I realized another problem, which was, I started speaking to local investors and they didn't know each other. They weren't helping each other to invest alongside each other. So I was like, okay, there's an even bigger problem here. And those two solving those two could, you know, help sort of, uh, solve each other essentially. So I just got obsessed with solving that problem. Um, and there's always another problem to find, isn't there? Once you unpack it. So I'm pretty set.

Biro: 6:02

I'm curious because I think, I think I can relate with that. I'm quite like you. I've seen so many patterns and so many challenges along the way. And I've tried to solve so many along the way and I failed building lucrative businesses, mainly because. Yeah, because of my lack, my, my own lacks. Right. But I'm curious and I, and I say this quite a lot, right? So when, when, when we do the angel, um, invest, investor pitches, the startups that pitch the entrepreneurs that come over, as you probably notice, one of the things that I'm quite interested in and keen on, um, exploring and that excites me is when. Entrepreneur has the background, the experience and the connections to make something happen. Right. And for me in the past, the lack of that was what made me fail so many other businesses. So now I'm looking for that pattern. Like, well, I know that they're probably going to succeed because they have the experience in the background as well. And you just mentioned. You didn't have the experience in this. So, but I also know that Southeast Angel has been growing and is doing quite well as an exciting company in Brighton and Southeast. What's your secret? What got you there? What, what, what are some of those ingredients that, um, make you a successful business or a towards success type of business?

Kristina Pereckaite: 7:40

Yeah, I mean, really, really interesting question. And so many layers to unpack there. I guess the. I don't know, I think you can look at Southeast Angels as an investment company, which, which technically isn't actually, if you, if you really break it down, it's, it's a community. And actually my background and experience is in working startup communities, working in marketing, where you're trying to build communities and content and help people to align alongside a goal. Right? So if you really look at what Southeast Angels is, it's a community built around a mission. In a way my experience almost didn't matter, you know, the, the thing that I was passionate about and the thing that I'd done many times before was helping communities to sort of thrive and connect. So, so I guess in a way you could say that there were, I did have some experience there. I, you know, I often like to challenge investors perspective around only investing in credible or experienced founders, right? Because. And, and, and I totally agree with you because I, this is my first business and I've made so many mistakes. I've spent a lot of money I shouldn't have. I've, you know, so and, and, and I've raised investment, right? So some of that money was investors' money. And I'm like, okay, well I messed up here and, and, and whatnot, and I know that in my next business I won't do those things and I'll be much, mm-hmm. better at, at spending my money in the right way and all that kind of stuff. So there's so much truth in that. However, you know, all great founders were first founders at some point. And being able to build relationships with those kind of founders who, if someone's just really great and you know that they can achieve something, even if it's not with this business, right? You put in a 10 K check into their business now. Yeah. You now have first dibs on their next thing. Or that business could evolve into something else. So yeah, I think like, I dunno for, for me, you know, investing, investing in businesses, That wouldn't stop me if it was somebody who hadn't done it before. You know, that's more fun, right?

Biro: 9:31

You know, you are right. And I think I get caught up in the, Oh, but you know, they don't have experience here. Are they going to be able to make it? And sometimes I pull myself back and, and I'm saddened by my own thinking, you know, because I want eventually to get into a different industry, to do something, to build a business that might not necessarily be related to. Wealth of a background that I have a knowledge and experience in, in a specific industry. I might just go into a different industry. At one point I've been thinking about it. And then taking a step back from some of the conversations at, uh, at our, um, table around the investors and, and looking at myself and looking at everyone else kind of, um, analyzing that quite a bit, where's their experience. Um, and now I take a step back and think to myself, Oh, that's sad. I

Kristina Pereckaite: 10:24

wouldn't invest in myself. It's not, but the thing is you, you have to look at that, right. Cause that's, it's, there's so many unknowns as an investor. It's one of the things you can look at, but I do think there is. Maybe it's not as obvious as this person has experienced that industry. Because when they do, it's like, it's a no brainer. They get the industry, they have the contacts, like obviously they're going to do well, but there's also transferable skills. Right. And something you do in one business, you could make another industry succeed. You could succeed on another level in that industry because of the transferable skills you have from something else.

Biro: 10:55

And that's, that's where your community building skills come in. And that's your, you're right. I think that's. Because if I look at our angel investor group, that's at the basis of, of a lot of, you know, community building, networking, um, being able to pull the amount of startups that you guys are able to, to, to look at it is it's insane. Honestly, like how, where do you pull so many startups every single month to look at it? So. I'm definitely impressed with a lot of the abilities that you and your team have. And I think that's the point, right? And that's the point that you're making as well is skills are transferable. If you, if, if you're able to. And this is probably an advice for any startup founders that, that are looking for, for funding, if you're able to vocalize your skillset, your strong skillset, that, um, kind of overlap with that specific industry. Yes, you don't necessarily need to have the, the experience, you know, been spending years in this industry, whatever, um, B2B SaaS or whatnot, but now you're into B2B SaaS, but you were in, let's say digital, but you're bringing a bunch of skills that will help you grow and you can, and you can basically vocalize how those skills will help you grow, because I think that's what probably you thought about it along the way was. Well, I can start this, I have experience in, in putting people together and bringing a community and growing a community and getting people excited. You got me excited when we initially were talking about me joining the group. So yeah, I think, I think there's something there.

Kristina Pereckaite: 12:45

Yeah. And I wonder if like, there's a thing about changing the perspective of not looking for, you know, does this founder have experience in this sector, but how obsessed is this founder with this problem as well, because. Um, maybe I didn't, you know, and the thing is like founders are people who create something out of nothing often. And they, if they are curious about a problem enough, they will figure out a way and actually not knowing the industry gives you some, some benefits because you're going to do it differently, right? You're going to, you're going to come up with your whole new way. And sometimes it might not be the best way or the most efficient way. So I think, yeah, founders who are obsessed with the problem because the solution is going to change and almost, you can get mentors for that. You can get support on that. And do it in your own way. But yeah, just obsessing over the problem, I think is probably, you have to be

Biro: 13:30

obsessed, but open-minded. Yeah. Because I've been obsessed in the past, but completely, you know, tunnel vision. Open-minded about the solution.

Kristina Pereckaite: 13:40

Yeah.

Biro: 13:40

Open-minded, obsessed with the problem.. Yes. Open-minded about the solution. Yeah. Obsessed about the problem. That's a good one. I'm going keep open-minded about the solution. Uh, obsessed about the problem and, and open-minded in, uh, open mind. Obsessed in such a way that you're open-minded. Enough to get the support systems in place that you need

Kristina Pereckaite: 14:06

in order to succeed. Absolutely. Yeah. Cause it's like, it doesn't matter how you get there. You're like, I don't care how we get it, but this is how, this is the problem I want to solve and how we get there. I don't know. And I'm open to any kind of option. I think, yeah, that's, that's like the best mindset to

Biro: 14:18

have. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's when you identify. Uh, that's, that's one. And then there's, um, of course the founders that I said that I love, which you have the experience, uh, yeah, so, well, no, that's, that, that's brilliant. And I think I value the ability to build a community and, um, and create a certain level of pool. I've been in a couple of, there are a couple of times, and in a way, this is one of the things that I'm trying to do with Misfit Founders as well, because we, a lot of us can relate and a lot of us have gone through businesses and failed. And fundamentally, that's the audience that's watching these podcasts are either people that have tried to build businesses and failed and decided, I'm just going to get a job because entrepreneurship ain't for me, which. It's not for everyone. Yeah, it's not for everyone, but sometimes you might be wrong in your judgment. It might be just your current circumstances. So I want to kind of help show your perspective of what it means to go through the hardships of, of a business yet succeed through content like this, that to me, the, the community building and, um, putting a lot of good. In the world and having the ability to help and support as many people is, is very valuable. And I think this is one of the reasons why I have this, um, this pull towards what you're doing with Southeast angel, because it's, it's the same pattern you're helping a lot of. Um, the angel investors, but also the, the, the startups and you're creating communities and you're, um, you're building something that's probably weighing more towards giving than taking probably a lot more, right? Um, maybe if you, if, if you're in it for just for the money or for the money, you would have gone, uh, A completely different route,

Kristina Pereckaite: 16:31

right? Agreed. Yeah. I mean, what we're doing is not massively scalable because we have quite a limited, you know, I guess, vision in a way, um, of how, how big we can grow, how much we want to kind of focus on regionally. Um, but it doesn't mean that there isn't opportunities for us to grow in other ways, which, you know, we're exploring, but it's like, yeah, focus on that first, see what comes out of it. But you're right. The main reason that I'm doing this is to solve that problem, to try and bring people together. I didn't start it thinking this is going to be the most successful business. That's going to make me loads of money, you know? And cause it's just not that, it's not that kind of model.

Biro: 17:07

And is this, is this your first

Kristina Pereckaite: 17:08

business? Well, um, I mean, I've had a few other, I don't know if I'd call them businesses, but, um, Yeah, just like project businesses. Um, the last thing I did was called the career body and it was a basically helping. It was like coaching women through, um, like with fitness and stuff like that, who were really busy and like career women, hence career body. Uh, so women who would travel for work, you know, I had clients in London and New York and stuff like that, and they would travel a lot for the work and they didn't have time to go to the gym or they don't have time to meet with a personal trainer. So they would. Um, just have me on WhatsApp 24 hour 24 7. That was my, oh great. That was my U S P and they could just send me a picture of a menu, I'd tell them what to eat and all that kinda stuff., my background's in fitness. So yeah, I quite enjoyed that kind of stuff. But again, not a scalable business. Very time consuming.

Biro: 18:05

Yeah. Well, so you are a problem solver. Can you, do you consider yourself a problem solver? I think

Kristina Pereckaite: 18:13

so. Well, hopefully I will solve some problems along my career.. Biro: And you enjoy. The challenge you enjoy. Yeah, absolutely. If that's like, I don't know if I can call myself problem solver yet, but I think that's what I enjoy a hundred percent. I

Biro: 18:28

think in any person that's, I would say, um, a tad modest wouldn't call themselves, I'm a problem solver. Um, basically that's what you're. That's what drives me. That's what drives you. That you, you enjoy looking at a problem and, and, and, and a challenge and, and, uh, coming up with. And. Where is, and I'm, I'm digging here a bit, where is the reward? Like the satisfaction, is it. At what stage is it identifying the problem? Is it the exploration and discovery phase around that problem, or is it when you nail the solution? What are, and you know, you might tell me a mix of it, but what gives you the most satisfaction and keeps you hooked, addicted to solving problems, basically.

Kristina Pereckaite: 19:23

What an interesting question. God, never really thought about that. Um, well, first of all, here's one, here's one problem with this, with this tray, is that, and I don't know if you've experienced this as well, but. There's so many problems to solve and you need to really rein yourself in sometimes, you know, like I, you know, I'll find another problem like, Oh my God, we can solve this. We need to do this. And I'm like, we can't do everything. So you have to focus. But, um, so I think for me, the thing that really excites me about problem solving is, you know, I, I feel like when I see a problem that is quite complex or, or someone hasn't been able to solve, I'm like, okay, well, it's actually quite simple. Let's just draw it out. Like you do this, you do this and. So for me, it's that figuring out how we can structure the solution and make it really, really simple. And I just think that some things are just made way too complicated than they should be. Like the whole investment world seems way too complicated than it should be, which means a lot of people don't get into investment. Or a lot of people don't raise investment because they don't get it because it's so hidden. So for me, it's like, once I, once I learned about it and I understood it, I was like, this is so straightforward. It's just people, they're investing in companies. And it's like, so I really, I think I love simplifying things. So finding a complex thing, simplifying it. And then interesting thing about the reward, once we've sold it, I actually. Probably instantly go on to the next thing. And I'm like, just constantly climbing up that mountain.

Biro: 20:48

You know, I am the exact same thing. My problem has a name ADHD. So I'm, I'm proper, yeah. So I, I jumped from one thing to another like crazy and, and. I've started doing something and then going to something else. And actually Nikki was talking about this, um, in a, in a setup at one point and said that, um, the moment she felt Jigsaw is not going to work was. When I wanted to completely pivot, we were starting, we were built, we were halfway through building our first app for the Atlassian marketplace. And I go in one day and say to Nikki, brilliant idea, decentralized storage systems. On crypto and that's what Jexo should be. Maybe we should, we should stop doing this. So at least you have, uh, you have an outcome, you have a end result. I start pivoting halfway to an idea, which is a lot worse.

Kristina Pereckaite: 22:06

Yeah. I mean, I mean, I do it like, so this is probably what, what you're talking about. Like I probably maybe don't have as extreme. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD, but. I'll be, I don't know, working on some emails, I'll get an email through. I'm like, Oh my God, what if we, what if we did this thing? And I could, I'll sketch up a whole other business or buy a domain and do a whole website. I'm like, Christina, what are you doing? Put this down. Yeah. Um, but what's really helped is actually for me, it's like this outlet of. Ideas is to have a place where every time I come up with this idea, it's like shelve it so that I have the satisfaction of being like, I will deal with this. At some point and not letting myself, you know, go into all of it right now. So it's like having a place, my, my idea book, right.

Biro: 22:54

Actually, uh, Nikki brought up an article that she read on the Atlassian blog that is about how to manage ideas. Cause we all have ideas on a daily basis and some of us. Just let them go, forget about it because we don't do anything about it. We just go on with our days. Some of us going by domains, myself and you, it start the business midday. Um, and some of us, uh, try to capture it somehow, but it's not very efficient. So I'll send you that article because it's a really cool way of you dedicating some time. If you're an idea person and you come up with challenges and you always. Want to backlog that. It sounds like you have a way, but this, um, approach helps you structure it a bit better. Love that. And then you also have, you, you mobilize a bit Mm. Because of the process. Yeah. So you can do stuff and the scope things and so on. So I'll, I'll definitely send you that. But I love that because I'm, I'm the same, like the amount of domains that I

Kristina Pereckaite: 24:00

bought. I'm just thinking like the domain business, I mean, They must be doing pretty well. Just all these people buying domain just so they can have it for a year.

Biro: 24:08

And then let them go. Let's keep the discussion on your current business, which sounds like it's, it's actually not your first business, but. Do you consider this your, your first growing and scaling

Kristina Pereckaite: 24:24

business?

Biro: 24:25

You proved the model, right? You proved the, it's beyond validation, right? You have a lucrative business now. What has been the one thing that you discovered building a business that you realize, man, I wish I knew this before starting this business, not specifically this business in this field, but in general, just being a founder and, and. Building a business.

Kristina Pereckaite: 24:52

Um, I think actually is that just that there are, there aren't really any rules because, uh, so every, every time I've had to do something like your typical business thing, like hire somebody or, or, um, I dunno, get a partnership in place or whatever. You, you tend to go for like, okay, how do you, how do people normally do this? And then get the rule book and. I don't know, get some advice on it. And, and that's great because there's standard ways to do things and it helps you like, you know, brainstorm things out. But the great thing about starting a business is you can do things in whatever way you want, you know, obviously to an extent, not, not legally, but you know, there are certain things you can do whatever you want. You have that flexibility and. And just to, I realized actually just to really embrace that and a really good example is hiring. So people are the toughest part of a business. It's been my biggest challenge. I don't have to, I don't have to say that, right? And every time I've hired and I've gone through the, okay, I'm going to hire. What do people do? They write a job description, they go to a recruiter, they put a job ad up. And none of the traditional stuff has helped me to hire, like none of it. And none of the money I spent on it, nothing. Um,

Biro: 26:07

it's very broken. The hiring process, the hiring. That's

Kristina Pereckaite: 26:10

a whole other problem we'll get into another time. Um, but what did work for me is all the stuff I did, like what worked personally for me and for my business. So I was like, let's throw the rule book out the window and just say, okay, what am I looking for? Who should I speak to? And just, just say something to someone on LinkedIn or, or whoever. And every single great person that I've hired has not been for any traditional means and nobody could have told me how to do it. It was just something that I personally did for my business. So it's like, yes, we should always look for like, okay, how, you know, don't try and recreate the wheel. Like, yes, find the steps, but then remember that your business is unique and you don't have to follow the rules as well. Like just, yeah. So, so that was the thing that going from, you know, working with startup communities, having like, here's how you start a business. Here's how you do that. Actually. Like, yes, it's helpful. I'm not, you know, putting that in any negative light, but at some extent, you're like, just figure it out

Biro: 27:08

on your own. And you have to lean on the aspects and the components. Of building a business that suit your business and not just even your business and, and your industry and so on, but you as a founder, it would be the worst thing for you to do things that you hate just because it is written in the Bible of how to build a business. Right. And, and we've done the same. So we knew nothing about marketing when we started Jigsaw and we've done a couple of. Classes courses on how to do marketing for SaaS, B2B product led stuff. And in the early days, we tried everything and it was like, Oh, that's not working. Or, Oh, we don't have any. Attraction towards this. And when you don't have an attraction, it doesn't, it doesn't shine. Right. So it might work a bit, but it's not. And, and then we started slowly settling into what we actually enjoyed. We're passionate about doing as activities and also squeezing as much and then getting obsessed about how using this technique, how can I maximize the output that I have? And I, and I think that's, that's important. I completely agree when you said. You know, there's no, you shouldn't follow there's, I mean, there's so many rule book rule books out there, but you shouldn't follow them

Kristina Pereckaite: 28:33

religiously. And actually now you're the way that you've been doing your marketing and your content is like, you're really known for that as well. So what you ended up doing actually was.

Biro: 28:44

And you discover so many things. Even I've talked to people before that said, you know, I don't think entrepreneurship is for me. I don't want to build a business. I don't see myself going for VC. I don't see myself, uh, basically, uh, creating a lucrative business and hiring a ton of people in scaling like that. And I always tell them. Try it just for the fact that you will be jack of all trades in that company and you will start exploring and discovering things that you love, right? How would you know where you want? Cause the same. The same people were very uncertain of where, what their professional growth is. There was, they would, they would look at, um, entrepreneurship, but in the same time, I would rather work in a bigger team, a bigger organization, have the safety nets and, and just be a nine to five. And that's perfectly okay. That's acceptable. But what I usually tell people is, well, if you don't know what. You're passionate about and what will make you wake up in the morning and go to work like it's you know, it's a hobby Start a business and do everything in that business. And eventually you figure out which, where you speak, where you stand. And I suppose that's, um, and I'm interested in this cause you were talking about hiring. Um, how do you approach hiring? What is, do you hire when you see a gap? Do you hire to unload some of the stuff that you don't want to do? How, what's your, um, process when, when, when you want to hire, when you realize that, um, there's a hire to, to be made.

Kristina Pereckaite: 30:34

I can tell you a lot of things not to do. Um, I'm sure I've made so many mistakes in this and that's what this podcast is about. Um, so, so, so my first hire was a grad. Actually, I had two, two grads on a grad scheme program to give me that, um, flexibility of like, you know, you know, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Um, and one of them was really great. Um, Sophie, uh, and I, I hired her full time and she, she worked out really well. And then. You know, she, she went on to, to do great things in the business. Um, she's the,

Biro: 31:04

this, her name on all of the invites of the, is

Kristina Pereckaite: 31:08

it? Oh, no, that's somebody else. No, that was after that was after. No, this was my first, first, um, employee. Okay. Um, and with that, for me, it was part of it was, you know, I, I didn't have time to do everything in my business and a big chunk of our time is evaluating companies because we have so many. So, so for me, it was finding somebody who could take over a bit of that. And so it was a bit of like. Really defining the gap and that hire was just really clear. Cause it was like, that's a clear part of the business. It's not something, you know, so, so, and I could really separate it out. It was almost like a project thing. And, and that I think I learned cause I made a few mistakes not doing that later. It's really important when you're early stage, even though that person will end up doing everything and that's fine, give them a really defined part of the business that they can become an expert in as well. So they feel like they're motivated through it because you might not be able to pay them as much as you might like at the start. And so, so that worked quite well. Um, and the other thing for me was hiring somebody, uh, made the business feel more real as well. Like, you know, I was like, okay, well now I actually have a team. I'm not a freelancer anymore. Yeah, right. This isn't just me. And I was really careful to not, my business is very much built around like personal relationships and personal brand a little bit. And I didn't want the business to be just me. I wanted it to be its own asset, right? I didn't want it to be. You know, if I leave, then the business doesn't exist. Like, I think to an extent it's still a little bit like that, but I wanted to make sure from the start that I was building a business that was its own credible asset. Interesting. Why? Um, well, because I didn't want to build a job for myself. I wanted to build a business. Right. So for me, it was really important. That's probably from all the guidebooks I've read on business. That was important for me to do, but to me personally, that's really important. I didn't want to. I didn't want the whole business to be reliant on me. Yeah. Okay. You know?

Biro: 33:04

Yeah. You can't like, I'm someone that probably somewhere in the future, don't know when, I will build some sort of business, be it side business or be it the main business. I don't know. But I know that. Eventually in the future, I will do that. I will build a business around my personal brand. And it's interesting that you're saying that you didn't want it for you to be only person that's working for that business. Mm. Um, because do you really need to, in a sense of. Can you not have, for example, and I'm not saying, I think Southeast angels being its own brand is, is, is great. Mainly because one, when it, when it comes to angel investor, um, syndicates and groups and so on, it, it, uh, it's probably at least for me looking at it, it's probably less credibility. If, if, if there's a person's brand, I've not seen that anywhere. It's, you know, it's an organization is a group of people. It feels more. Um, but every single, um, personal brand and influencer led businesses have, have had employees, at least the ones that I've interacted with. So, and I'm thinking, well, when I do that, I'm, I am going to have people working with me. It just looks like it's your, yeah. It is mine because I'm like everything that my team produces is under my own brand and represents me. But probably I can do that still. And the reason why I'm asking this is because, you know, just speaking very frankly and open. I think. And I don't know, we'll talk about the stuff that you're interested in, how things are looking for you in the future and some of the things that you're, um, into, but just. Seeing your online presence and your personality, um, I do think that you can build a personal brand and you're already building a network, personal brand. And, and it can be an influencer in, in a specific industry because you have certain. Skills around that from even the, how you communicate online and the ability to, um, to be present on socials and channels and so on, and the ability to kind of reverse engineer and figure out what people want to hear, where, and so on, that's not, everyone has that sense, right? There's a reason why so many people are silent on social media is because they. Either they don't want to be present, or they don't have that sense of, I can find the people that are interested in what I want to say here, and I can talk to them and, and relate to them in this manner. That's a bit of a skill to do that. Yeah. But I do think that that's a path that would be quite. I don't know if it does feel easy for you and I don't know if you identify yourself as, as, um, um, a personality and an influencer, but at least I see the kind of like the signals and the traits there.

Kristina Pereckaite: 36:53

That's really nice of you to say. I, so I think there's two things that like, I totally agree. Using my personal brand to make the business a success, for example, is what I'm absolutely doing. I, and I, I love, the thing that I love to do is content, like I could write all the time and weirdly people think I'm a people person. They're like. You know, Christina's always out networking events, doing all these meetings, but actually I just love working behind a laptop, writing some content without speaking to anyone. That's, that's the sweet spot. Um, so I, I love con, I love, again, like it's that clarity of message. It's like taking a complex idea, communicating it in a really friendly, easy to understand way, making it fun. So, so, so I, I absolutely love that. And I think, you know, and. I love hosting events. So yeah, absolutely. Like that's, that's an area that I will always, I think, focus on. Um, the, this thing about Southeast Angels not being reliant on me, it's like, yes, my, my personal brand will be there and, and, and whatnot, but the actual company, I didn't want it relying on me as a person. So I guess it's like separating the brand thing from the... But your, your personal

Biro: 38:00

brand helps build Southeast Angel right now. Like if, if you were in person, like... The amount of times that I've seen your, your posts on, on LinkedIn and kept me thinking about joining an angel investor group as I was going through, you know, the acquisition and, and, and, cause I, I think I mentioned this a couple of times when talking to you, I've been helping and mentoring startups for quite a while, um, Never had the ability to financially support startups. And whenever I would hear about angel investors, I would look up to them and be like, Oh, that's so awesome that you can actually financially help some, although knowledge is as valuable, I would say, but. Yeah, just seeing constantly your content on, on, on my timeline is always in the back of my mind, always a reminder. Actually, there's a, there's, there's a group for this. And there's, um, there's an, there's an option for me. That's not just going, um, on my own and I want to highlight the future angels initiative that you're, and I think others have been praising that as well. I was there when others have praised that, that is. Uh, I think going back to what you said, you identified a lack of knowledge and a lot lack of, um, transparency in this angel investors, industry and world. And you took action and future angels. That's what it is. It's basically a forum where yourself and angel investors talk about what it means to be an angel investor. And There's at least, I don't know of anything out there might be stuff out there. That's like that, but I don't know about any of that. Every single conversation that I had about what it means to be an angel investor, I had it with the, in a private settings, we said thing with an angel investor and, and that was me wanting to explore this area and wanting to become an angel investor, but there's, and I think I'm, I'm stealing your words now, but there's so many people that could, that have that profile. Of of an, of an Angel investor and can help startups, but they never think about it.

Kristina Pereckaite: 40:22

Yeah, absolutely. You're so right. And so Future Angels was one of those ideas that I wrote down while I was busy working on Southeast Angels. And you bought the domain. I did yeah. Um. And I, I was like, okay, this is another problem to solve. Cause so Future Angels was born from the idea of actually, we just don't have enough diversity. And the reason we don't have diversity is because it's so unaccessible. It's so hard to get into. And all the conversations had behind closed doors. And so there are, there are some really great initiatives around like. Getting more women into investment like stocks and finance and stuff, but not really much about angel investment where there's no commitment to invest or actually doing anything. You're just learning. And it's like no criteria, no barriers to entry, just come along and talk about it. And there's no silly questions like that. That was the goal. And you don't have to have a certain amount of wealth either. Learn now when you build your wealth, become an investor. Um, and so, yeah, so that was one of the ideas that got through cause I couldn't stop thinking about it. It just kept coming back to it, back to it, back to it. I was like, I have to do this. I can't stop thinking about it. Um, and, and this is one of the, one of the things that I think can absolutely scale actually, as that is part of Southeast Angels because that doesn't have to be regional and we can help hundreds or thousands of, of women or people from different backgrounds become investors as well, which is. Really, that really excites me

Biro: 41:39

and that I love, and you know, my stance on, on this and whatever I can help with, uh, I would love to see more, um, more women and more diversity in, uh, in this world of, of investing. Um, and I'll do my. Damn hardest I'm putting this on, on camera to get Nikki as well.

Kristina Pereckaite: 42:04

We'll get Nikki involved eventually.

Biro: 42:06

Um, switching pace a bit, what keeps you up at night? About your entrepreneurship journey. What are the things that are, you're like, give you a bit of a heartache?

Kristina Pereckaite: 42:25

Uh, probably the things all of us, all entrepreneurs will say, which is cash and people, right? Is that what everyone says? Um, I mean, you know, where we are right now as a business, we are not yet a flying sustainable business. We're still, we're still a start of ourselves. You know, we've been going for less than three years. And we're still trying to like the angel group model is very, uh, has been done many times. It's a traditional type of business. But it's normally founded by investors who want to invest with their friends. So what tends to happen with angel groups is they have money. Yeah. And the businesses is a normally a not for profit. So you'll have an investor meets with his free investor friends. They hire an operations person to run it. And they kind of just, you know, they, they get as many investors on board as they can, and they've been going for decades and it's kind of its own little machine, whereas we're trying to do something a bit differently. We're trying to create a business out of something that is normally done like that. So, so we actually are still constantly trying to evolve and figure out our business model and we need to get to a certain level of members for it to be, to be sustainable and to work. So, so that keeps me up at night. It's like, can we survive the tough years of the start of a business? And what a lot of people don't know is, you know, because we are very much a brand and we do some, you know, we've raised a million for founders and we, we speak to all these people, everyone's like, oh, they're so successful. You know, you guys must be doing well. And in some aspects we absolutely are successful because, you know, we've, we've had our exit, we've made investments, but we still have the same problems as any other business, you know, around cash, maintaining great people, finding great people. Um, figuring out our business model, you know, and surviving in the tough market that, that we have this year. So, so it's just, just the standard boring stuff, really. Uh,

Biro: 44:18

it pretty much is in a sense of standard, because if I think of our, like with ours, like I, that's what kept me late at night, just on the computer, trying to figure out things was. One, you know, are we going to get to be self sustained before we run out of money? Um, and two, Oh my God, this person is causing challenges here. Oh, how am I going to hire another person? These two people are not getting along. How, what am I going to do about that? And so on. So yeah, so I think those are, but. Interesting. My follow up question on that would be, do you find yourself having to think often about your business model and introducing different structures? Different, do you find like it's a, it's a constant race, or do you find that that you're polishing a model? Are you polishing a model? Of growth or are you constantly pivoting and adjusting and trying things? I think, if you know what I mean with

Kristina Pereckaite: 45:29

this question? Yeah, yeah, I think so. So I think, um, when we first went into it, I was, I changed the sort of the business model, how we made money a little bit. But I, I think because again,'cause I went in quite naively not really knowing the industry. I spoke to other competitors and what they were doing and, and I figured it out myself, but because I went into it with kind of fresh eyes, We did so many different things to a standard angel group, like making it more of a social experience and stuff like that, that we were able to make it more sustainable from the get go. The, the thing that we've been working out is like, how, how can we diversify what we do, our revenue streams? How can we deliver the right value for what we're doing? So it's like, are we doing too much? Are we doing too little? And. Um, and what do members really want? And as we grow and as the market changes, investors want different things, founders need different things. So it's, it's almost like trying to shift and find our perfect place in the ecosystem. Um, yeah, so there's all sorts of stuff going on in

Biro: 46:31

there. Is it? Exciting is, is this thing exciting for, I mean, I'm asking a question of, you told me that you're, you're the problem geek, right? So I suppose I kind of know the answer to this, but you know, sometimes I've kind of had in business two States, one where I would open a Pandora's box and I would look at all of the unknowns that hop in my eye socket at that point and be like, Unlimited possibilities, right? This is my playground. Look at all of these challenges that I can pursue and innovate and, and so, because I'm already thinking about, I can do this, I can do that. And so, and then I also had. Periods where I would open that goddamn Pandora box and I would look inside and be like, Oh, no, close it, close it back, close it back. Um, is, is that, is that the case for you, which do you find yourself yet another problem and, or challenge, or we have this and you feel, you wake up excited thinking today I get to face this thing and it excites me. Is it that for you?

Kristina Pereckaite: 47:53

It is. I mean, I think I, I'm sure many people can relate to that rollercoaster feeling, you know, and how, and it's crazy how the highs can be so high and the lows can be so low. And actually one of the main things I've been working on in my own sort of personal growth with my coaches. How to even out those waves because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's mental to me how one day, you know, and it's, it'll be one thing that happens. That's positive. And you'd be like, everything's amazing. I run the best business in the world. I'm so good at this. And then one small thing will happen. And it's like, this is it. This is the end. It's not going to work. I was like, how is my brain doing that? And, and, and just being really aware of that and realizing how much the little things were affecting me. It's kind of slowly trying to learn and be more stoic and be like, we did a good thing. Great. Don't, don't get too excited. Move on. You know, something bad happened. It's okay. Like, and it's just, for me, it's just been trying to ride out those waves and be a bit more stoic about it. Um, don't take the good thing as the best thing in the world. And did you

Biro: 49:00

achieve, are you getting there? We mentioned a coach, which is quite an interesting point. Do you feel like that's helping? Because. Um, the reason why I was laughing, look, I don't laugh at your pain and suffering. I'm always laughing when I'm relating to it. I'm like, Oh, you're not going to tell me about it. Yeah, I'm exactly the same. And I've started, and I think that's the reason why I failed a lot of businesses because it just destroyed me mentally and emotionally quite often. And I started Jigsaw like that. And Nikki knows I would, I would go to high frequency to very low frequency type of energy. And, um, and it will constantly happen rollercoaster and Nikki's. A bit more leveled, right? Still, still, she has her days and so, but, but not like me, I am a drama queen. Like I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll pack my toys and, and, and leave and go to walk peanut and try to, um, to basically fix my breathing with every single thing that, that, that starts with you, which is manic, but over time. Spending time with Nikki, I've kind of started adjusting that. So I'm, I still have challenges, like I'm never going to fix that. It's, it's my character and the way I, but I learned to deal with my emotions, but because I had. The right co

Kristina Pereckaite: 50:31

founder, I mean, that's, that's so amazing to have, right. That, that, that you had Nikki by your side and like as a co founder, but also as a partner, I think a lot of people don't talk about how much partners are involved in like the stress of somebody running a business they're like can be your cushion if they're, if they're the right emotional state. But this

Biro: 50:50

is why, because you mentioned, uh, basically coach mentor, I. Every single time I talk to someone and, and they, they resemble this pattern. I tell them you need a co founder that can balance you out and can help you kind of. Not go through, because when you're alone in your own thoughts, things just amplify.

Kristina Pereckaite: 51:16

They escalate. Yeah. A hundred percent. Totally. And so I have to give a shout out to my coach because she, I've been working with her for five, six years. She's just an absolute amazing genius person named Claire James. And she, she's a business coach. But she is to me like a therapist, um, you know, I'll go in to talk about my marketing strategy and I'll end up talking about my dad. You know what I mean? Like literally, like literally. So she, she's been helping me in so many, so many different ways and. Uh, she, she is the person that's helped me to figure out those things and also my partner, Marcus, because I, so I'm the kind of person, I don't know if you relate to this, but in the, in the workplace or any, anywhere that's outward facing, I am always, I'm fine. I'm in control. Everything's great. And I will, no matter how I feel inside, I will never really project that. Yeah. I could be dying of stress inside. I'll never project it. Right. And the only person that gets to see it is my partner Marcus when I get home and I get to be myself. Um, so those two people in my life have helped me to get through that. One supporting me and, and, and Claire. Help me figure out that just being aware of what's happening, that it's not so bad and it's not so good and evening it out and just constantly working at it, working at it. So I do feel like just in the last, I'd say, year, I feel less crazy.

Biro: 52:41

Okay, that's, that's, that's always a good thing. Um, yeah, and it's. It's identifying and I talk about this all the time and I feel that I constantly repeat myself and probably on these podcasts, I repeat myself all the time, but you know, repetition, I feel that is good because if I hear, if I hear a couple of people or the same person telling me this, this, this, this, this probably going to eventually stick with me. So, you know, I'm more than happy for people to. I hear the same bloody thing over and over again, but it's that ability to identify you have a problem, right? Which often we're very bad at. We're super bad at identifying that we have a problem, right? So you might be going through this rollercoaster and think entrepreneurship is shit, right? Like that's, that's what it is. It's, it's not me. It's this entrepreneur thing is, is just a. You know, crap show is choose my language. Right. So why do it? Cause it's so intense and so on. And it's only through, cause that's, that's the same thing that I've gone through. I've, I've been through so many businesses and every single time I would suffer immensely. Yeah, I would have a couple of joys, but then the suffering was, was significant and I would beat myself up so much, but it was never me identifying that I have challenges and I have lacks. And that I'm taking things a bit too hard. It was always is the environment is the environment is too challenging. And it took getting a co founder like Nikki to, for me to identify this and for basically not me identified, she would tell me you are bloody intense. You need to calm down. And I think that's. Having a co founder that is a bit the opposite and, and can identify and vocalize some of these things. Having a mentor again, that can, that is a lot more senior and can look at that and say. Hey, I think there's something there that you need to, to explore because we, as humans are terrible autocrats, right? Like we were, we're super bad at, at analyzing ourselves and saying, yeah, this is what, what I'm bad at. And this is what I need to

Kristina Pereckaite: 55:14

change. And just, and actually just also when things are bad, just, just sharing that with somebody, whether it's your coach, friend, other, or found a friend ideally. So they'll understand it a bit better. I found that when you're going for a really rough patch, just calling somebody and just sharing it, it just puts you back on the actual reality, like, and out of your like, Oh, this reality I'm in is really, really negative. And just kind of takes you out of that. Every time I spoke to anyone, even if it's like a client or a customer or whatever, it just changes your view again. It's like, okay, everything isn't so bad.

Biro: 55:51

And this is going back to Angel. Um, investing and, and start the founders looking for, um, for financial support and advice and things like that. It is a significant red flag. If a founder that I've invested knowledge or financial resources in does not pick up the phone to call me when they're going through hardships and I find it at a quarterly. A report meeting and say, Oh, but we, I've been through this challenge and so on. And, but you've never reached out

Kristina Pereckaite: 56:31

to. Yeah. And we talked about this the other day, didn't we? That actually a big part of that is founders feeling like they can't or that they shouldn't talk to investors when things are bad. And I, I think that's, that needs to change. Right. And that's actually with anybody. It's like. Um, and what I love about what you're doing is, you know, you were telling me the other day about the kind of expectations you set as an investor with founders of like, here's what I can do to help reach out to me. If you have this, this and this, um, and I think that's so important because founders don't know what they're allowed to do, what they're not allowed to do. So they don't particularly do it out of, For a negative reason, they just don't know that they can, or that

Biro: 57:11

they should. And I think that's seeking and look, I've learned through just pure coincidence. No one actually told me, and I, you know, I wish someone would have told me this earlier. Is just talk to people, talk to as many people as you can, even if you're an introvert, you don't have to talk, but listen, because yeah, if you're able to listen to a wide range of people, a diverse group of people, and this is an advice that is for. For the startup fund that found the world, but it's in general, right? You, you change your perspective. You broaden your perspective. You, you understand that there are movies and storylines that exist out there that aren't yours, that have a completely different perspective on things and. And that's why every single time someone wants to talk to me, I'm game. It doesn't matter. I'm not busy for anyone. And I've had so many discussions in the Atlassian ecosystem with people that wanted to start that are more in between that any type of topics, because I've done the same, I've kept, and I've started this guy just the other day I met with. One of our angel investors, um, over a coffee 4am in the afternoon, 4pm in the afternoon, am that would be early 4pm in the afternoon, you know, we were supposed to meet for an hour, made a two and just talked and talked and talked. And it was, it was, it was an amazing conversation. So I seek just chatting with people with absolutely no intent or, Oh, I need to get this from it. No, just talking to people. And that's why when someone reaches out, yes, more than happy and available. And I ask, and I encourage everyone to do that because that's the only way that you gain perspective. Anyways, I think we can talk about this stuff for hours and I'm sure we'll have a part two eventually. I want to close off with asking you the same three questions. This is my, this is my closing ceremony. I love it. I ask the same three questions. Every single founder that comes along. Um, the first one is what is a quote that you live by?

Kristina Pereckaite: 59:43

Um, everything feels impossible until it's done.

Biro: 59:49

Okay. I feel that that, that comes from, from your addiction to problem solving,

Kristina Pereckaite: 59:56

isn't it? Absolutely. And it's just like, the more, the more you, the more you read about, like, just, just anything, anything in life, the economy, business, whatever, nothing existed at one point. And now we do all these insane things in the world. And so just, just remembering that whenever you're trying to do something complex or difficult, that seems like super impossible. Like, how the hell am I going to grow this giant business or create this brand or whatever it is? Everything felt like that before it was done. So just remembering that makes me feel like I can do it as well. So I live my, I try and live my whole life, uh, through that.

Biro: 1:00:34

That's amazing. Well, I was expecting it to be something of that. So to be honest, uh, just knowing you a bit and, um, how about a book that really helped shape your life, be it your personal or professional life?

Kristina Pereckaite: 1:00:51

This is the hardest question. Cause I want to say so many, I, I want, can I say two? Yeah. Um, so the first one is, uh, Sapiens by Yuval Nahari, I think is the surname. Do you know that one? No. Um, so it's basically, it's the history of, of humankind just explains how humans came to be where they are. And the reason that book is, was amazing for me personally is because, so I'm, I'm, an immigrant to this country. My parents moved here when I was five. And because of that, I think I lived a lot of my younger life being very following rules and being like, don't ask questions, do what you need to do. Kind of, that's the kind of mentality put me in. So it's a whole other story. But, um, reading that book, which I only read like maybe three, three or so years ago, made me see the world in this whole new light. That it changed me completely because I finally understood that a lot of things are made up, that a lot of rules and life is just constructs that people put together and it made me, it helped me to break rules in a good way. So, so that changed my life. And then the business book that changed my perspective on things was, um, it's called The Hard Thing About Hard Things. And now I've forgotten the really famous person who wrote that book, but, um, you know, I'm sure people will find it. And that one's a contrarian view of, of running a startup because there's all these rule books, as I said, and that book's like, there are no rules. Um, here's some realistic examples of what happened or like how to have this tough conversation and stuff like that. It's, it's an amazing book.

Biro: 1:02:25

Perfect. And I think it's quite a popular book, so I'm sure people will find it. And, uh, third is what is the, uh, good habit that you advocate for? Hmm.

Kristina Pereckaite: 1:02:41

Uh, just move exercise. Like that's my, my, I have a bit of a fitness background, obviously, but nothing helps your mind as much as like. Getting your body moving and however tough it's going, you know, whatever tough things are happening up there, you should always start with physical. So any, anytime I'm down the dumps, I'm going for a run. I'm getting my body moving and just really nice, simple thing to do. I

Biro: 1:03:10

think that, oh, that I shared that significantly. Like just like going to the gym and training early in the morning, endorphins just makes you feel. Better and even helps you with your mood and, um, and mental well being in a sense. So, yeah, well, thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Yes. It's a pleasure to have you on and I feel that we can talk for ages. So we'll definitely have part two. I love that. Let's do it.